Great Sound?!?

[003]

Heh, how many times have the both of you said that you guys are done here but continued posting?

I believe EricB is being rather ignorant when he says that technically there's a difference but that realistically the "audiophile geeks" don't hear it. Seems like he's flaming here more than using actual logic (and supporting his claims). EricB - Have you done a detailed (blind/ double-blind) comparison between the sound cards in question? If not, then you should either get around to it or stop all this bickering.

What is worth mentioning here is that 003's premise on the DSP affecting the sound quality to a large degree is based on his hearing a difference between the X-Fi and the Audigy 2. So, because he heard a difference between these two cards using their analog outputs, and because he thinks that both use the same DAC and has read that one resamples the audio to 48khz, he concludes that the difference is atrributed to the DSP at work. He has NOT ABX'd his findings for confirmation and he doesn't have the cards anymore, so his findings lack credibility.

Verdict: DRAW?

A few things. The X-fi and the Audigy2 do use the same DAC, unless creative recently changed something (not including the x-fi elite pro).

Whatever the reason may be, be it the DSP resampling, or something we dont know about, the difference between sound quality of the x-fi and the audigy 2 was very noticeable. It was not placebo. That probably dosnt mean anything to you but I just know. Placebo does not make that big of a difference.

And placebo kicks in when you buy something very expensive such as solid gold interconnects, and your mind tricks you into hearing a difference to justify the insane cost.

But in the case of the x-fi and the audigy2, I did not have high hopes for either of them and did not intend to keep either one.

It was not like my mind wanted to hear a difference because I wanted one to sound better; I quite frankly dont care how they sound.

Also, about the people in india are stupid comment, I did not mean it that way. I am not racist. What I meant was there ARE people in india who are working for creative for extremley low pay and most of them dont know a thing about their job; Creative uses them because they are cheap.

do any remember me saying that all Geek Audiophile do is put other people stuff down? they love to say

"my stuff is better than yours"

go eat a duck 003

I did not even say what my stuff was until you brought it up. I did not say mine was better than yours until you started saying I did not know what I was talking about, and even when I said it, it was hardly as blatant as what you said. "I think my setup is better than yours if not only because you were the one who put yours together" (something along those lines).
Wilson Audio makes more than just those speakers, in fact they dont make those particular speakers anymore because they were to expensive and not enough people bought them, and I highly doubt they were the ones you heard.

When I said best speakers, I meant the best speakers that have been made. Of course the "best" in audio does not exist.

 

[EricB]

Heh, how many times have the both of you said that you guys are done here but continued posting?

I believe EricB is being rather ignorant when he says that technically there's a difference but that realistically the "audiophile geeks" don't hear it. Seems like he's flaming here more than using actual logic (and supporting his claims). EricB - Have you done a detailed (blind/ double-blind) comparison between the sound cards in question? If not, then you should either get around to it or stop all this bickering.

What is worth mentioning here is that 003's premise on the DSP affecting the sound quality to a large degree is based on his hearing a difference between the X-Fi and the Audigy 2. So, because he heard a difference between these two cards using their analog outputs, and because he thinks that both use the same DAC and has read that one resamples the audio to 48khz, he concludes that the difference is atrributed to the DSP at work. He has NOT ABX'd his findings for confirmation and he doesn't have the cards anymore, so his findings lack credibility.

Verdict: DRAW?

how are I being ignorant? it is a fact that over 90 percent of the world can't not tell the difference of between 2 of the same sound if the source is flat frequency, low distorted sound and has a s/n ratio of over 80db. that's isn't even cd level yet

this tests were done by thousands of engineers using the DBT.
I've have been ABXing for at least 15 years now. I haven't abx the 2 sound card because I have a life and I'm not into audio like I used to be in the 90's.

003 haven't abx anything

I use to have an abx setup over my friend butch's house in the 90's until I sold my McIntosh power amp tester (the MPI-4 scope was the name or something like that) to uncle sam's pawn shop for $1200.00. that strip our abilty to ensure even levels

we use the setup at genesis audio now.

guess who flunk the most? the super high end geek audiophiles.
guess who pass the most? Musicians

Edit. I can send you plenty of literature and audio books backing this up.

geek audiophiles are always claiming to hear a difference in something when nothing is there. they claim to hear differences just by changing rca cable or speaker wire

 

[003]

geek audiophiles are always claiming to hear a difference in something when nothing is there. they claim to hear differences just by changing rca cable or speaker wire

In case you have not noticed, I agree about that. Cables make no difference at all.

Neither does vibration control (unless you are dealing with tubes which are susceptible to microphonics) and crap like that.

Like I said, I dont know if it is the resampling in the Audigy2 that makes it sound bad, or something else, but one thing is for sure, it sounds B-A-D.

When I got my Juli@, I was not expecting much if any difference in sound. I got it because as I said, I like to test everything to see if they really make a difference, like cables for example, which do zilch. I was expecting the juli@ to do zilch. But guess what? It didn't! It just about knocked me off my feet when I heard it!

Quit giving me this crap about "you need to ABX it". I dont have the means to do that, and I don't need to! If I could, I would, and pass with flying colors. A sound card is basicly the source, and believe you me, the source DOES make a difference. The Audigy2 is very sub par.

 

[EricB]

Thank you for contacting Creative Technical Support.

You may want to know that for digital connections, capabilities of the
soundcard is being bypassed. Therefore the quality of music will depend
on the decoder/receiver of your speakers system.


I apologize for the inconvenience, but according to the information
provided, you are beyond your complimentary e-mail support period.

Every Creative product is covered by our award-winning customer support
services, which include:

? Complimentary telephone support for the first 60 days of ownership to
help you get started with your product
? Complimentary email support for the duration of your product's
warranty
? Warranty service by telephone or email for the duration of your
product's warranty
? Unlimited access to our portfolio of web-based support services for
the life of your product

If you are beyond your complimentary support period, there are a few
options that are available for you.

1. You may take advantage of our free web-based services including a
searchable knowledge base, forums, product documentation, tutorials, and
downloads.
2. You may utilize 3rd party online forums and discussion groups that
can be found using online search engines.
3. You may contact our telephone support to purchase a Creative Tutor
session from one of our expert technical advisors.

 

[AtomicAudio]

-"Arguably, the best speakers ever made were the Wilson Audio Grand SLAMM Series II Loudspeakers."

-Sound is Subjective!

-"...the best set of speakers haven't been built yet.
they will never ever be built."

-Amen!

 

[Crysalis]

Thank you for contacting Creative Technical Support.

You may want to know that for digital connections, capabilities of the
soundcard is being bypassed. Therefore the quality of music will depend
on the decoder/receiver of your speakers system.

Very interesting....isn't that what we said?

 

[EricB]

Very interesting....isn't that what we said?

I'll be Dam_ned. I didn't even read that right last night. I was a half sleep when I got the email. I thought that they didn't answer me.


Nuff said

 

[molsen]

heh, case closed

 

[alexsabree]

wow... i think my head just grew 2 inches wider with this thread

Both of u guys are really smart, thats why i hopefully trust that you are right. But i think that creative email post really answered all of the confusion

 

[003]

I'll be Dam_ned. I didn't even read that right last night. I was a half sleep when I got the email. I thought that they didn't answer me.


Nuff said

They didn't. By capabilities they mean things like EAX, CMSS3d, the DAC, etc... They did not say the DSP. Because they can not, because you can not bypass the DSP. Ask them if the digital out bypasses the DSP, they will say the same thing no doubt, avoiding answering the question and using "your warranty has expired" as an excuse for not saying yes or no.